Women in Healthcare: Empathy, Accountability, and Everyday Leadership
Download MP3Hello, everyone. Thank you for tuning in today. My name is Adrienne Lloyd, and you're here today with the Women in Healthcare podcast with MGMA. And I'm so excited to have with us today, Hayley Boling. Hayley is an amazing colleague and someone I've gotten to know over the last, I guess seven or eight years.
Adrienne Lloyd:She is the CEO of Bowling Vision Center and Insight Surgery Center and several affiliated businesses including HGB Consulting. She also founded Kindness to Prevent Blindness, which provides free vision care to over 20,000 children annually through mobile clinics. She is a third generation medical entrepreneur from Northern Indiana and she's deeply rooted in service and community. She helped raise over a million dollars for local education through the Elkhart Education Foundation and she has led initiatives focused on diversity, operational excellence and youth empowerment. And her leadership extends to numerous boards including OWL which is ophthalmic world leaders, the YWCA, the Indiana Black Expo.
Adrienne Lloyd:She's also the immediate past president of ASOA and a certified ophthalmic executive who's been nationally recognized multiple times as a game changer in healthcare. Beyond business, she's a motivational speaker, published author, and fierce advocate for women, children, and underserved communities. In her downtime, I love this, she loves boating, travel, I'm right there with you on both of those, and time with her two Pomsky pups Bellini Boo and Bentley Bling. Hayley, thank you so much for being with us today and we're just so excited to hear from you. I will also add Hayley and I do some co presentation and speaking together around really talking about growth culture and overall just team engagement.
Adrienne Lloyd:I know she's done a lot of work on that, but just thank you so much for being with us.
Hayley Boling:Well, thank you so much for having me and it's always a pleasure anytime that I get to collaborate with you, Adrienne. I always say that you're a brilliant mind. You're a wonderful woman to know, but also more importantly to me, you're a wonderful friend. And so I'm excited to be here with you today.
Adrienne Lloyd:Thank you. I'm so excited to have you. We finally got this on the calendar. Your schedule's been so crazy. We made it.
Adrienne Lloyd:We are here. I'm just so excited to be able to share, hear from you. And I know our listeners too will really enjoy it. So one of the things that we'd love to just kind of start off with is, I'd love your thoughts, Haley, on how organizations, I know you've done a lot of work with culture and really focusing on accountability as well as how can organizations who want to create a culture of accountability and really improve where they are and what their results may look like both for the patient experience as well as their overall financial and operational results, how can they do that while really maintaining a warm empathetic environment for employees?
Hayley Boling:That's a great question. I have heard it several times. People are always worried about too much accountability or too much empathy. And I always say that accountability and empathy are not opposites. They are not either or.
Hayley Boling:They truly are partners when you are implementing them with intentionality and focus. And so a lot of times women leaders or leaders in general, really think that they have to choose between being this nice boss or being the tough boss. And I just really believe that that's kind of a false narrative. Because at the end of the day, the best thing that you can do for somebody is reducing ambiguity. That is the best thing that we can do as leaders.
Hayley Boling:That's the best thing that we can do as people is to make sure that the individuals that we are serving as leaders, those that are on our teams understand expectations of what they need to do to succeed. And so those clear expectations actually reduce stress for them as workers. It actually increases confidence. It gives them the stepping stones and the information they need to ultimately succeed as well. And so I'm a big believer that providing the why behind the what is one of the most important things that we can do.
Hayley Boling:And that's how I reduce ambiguity as a leader. I provide information transparency that why behind the what. People want purpose in life. And so if I can provide that purpose behind information, I think that they're going to step up and be the very best version of themselves. And so reducing that ambiguity, giving them the why behind the what, speaking with them early and often, letting them know how they ultimately can succeed in a role or in a position, or maybe it's just a task.
Hayley Boling:Letting them know what that looks like is one of the kindest things that we can actually do as leaders. I am also a big believer that transparency builds trust. So anytime that I can be a transparent leader, which is also giving them more information and being transparent about what the role requires and what the role ultimately looks like. By being transparent and giving them the process behind success, it is going to ultimately set them up for long term success. And so I am just really an advocate for giving people the tools that they need to succeed in a role.
Hayley Boling:Because at the end of the day, empathy without accountability creates chaos and accountability without empathy creates fear. And so if you can be the type of leader that actually blends both of those together, you're actually being an empathetic leader by creating opportunities for accountability. You do that by setting people up for success by reducing that ambiguity. So giving them the tools that they need to succeed, giving them that why behind the what, letting them know what purpose is behind what they're doing on a daily And ultimately when you blend those two things together is this kind of beautiful marriage of having a high performance culture. Because at the of the day, that's what we all want are high performance cultures.
Hayley Boling:And so, and I think that that can be done when you have a leader that really wants to build both the empathetic side as well as that transparency and the accountability side.
Adrienne Lloyd:No, I love so much of what you said and I think a couple of things I've noticed too. And just, I know you've both worked with a lot of different groups and you've mentored a lot of leaders and you've also done consulting and in my exposure too, like I just know that when you've so many times people don't know what success looks like. And I think it's even like half the time to weave and know what our success looks like in our job and it is always gonna be a moving target, but the more that for our team members, we can show them what it looks like to be a successful front desk person or technician or whatever role that they're in. And same thing with our providers too. I think clarity for the providers obviously provide great care of the patients, but it's just so important I think to start there and then create as you have with your groups as really engaging them in the process for change and identifying the issues.
Adrienne Lloyd:It's just so key because I know you've heard me say this as well as you've said it yourself too, like no one leader do it alone, but love to hear like what are some strategies that you've used to really have hone in on those clear expectations and just communication and that transparency? I love that too because I think a lot of times our teams don't always know, you know, they give us input, they give us ideas, and then they don't understand when something doesn't change, right? Or when we aren't able to fix something or they don't understand the why, maybe that's not the priority at the time. And I think the more that we can help them understand those types of things, as well as just in general, like what's happening in our market around us, what's happening from a healthcare industry perspective, the more that they can start to be engaged in those solutions. But what have you found that's really worked for you and your team to help the staff and the providers kind of get to where you need them to go when they want to go?
Hayley Boling:Yeah, you know what? I am all about defining success. And if I can define what good or great or amazing it looks like, is going to help everybody step up to the plate and say, Hey, I know what I need to do in order to be successful. This is what it looks like. And our team has provided all of the tools in order to help people get there.
Hayley Boling:And so having a true definition and whether that is a success profile per role or per job duty. And so really defining what that looks like. And so if it's a productivity standard, making sure that we understand what that productivity standard actually is, and then not just knowing what the productivity standard is, but then how do you actually get there if you are falling short of that productivity standard? You know, in addition to that, we do a lot of stuff around behaviors and what our expectations are, what our non negotiables are, because at the end of the day, culture is everything to any business that I work with, any practice that I work with. That's actually one of the reasons why people bring me in is to be a culture consultant or a culture overhaul expert kind of a thing.
Hayley Boling:Because at the end of the day, so many people understand the importance of culture, but they kind of look at it as the warm, fluffy thing as the foundation of every successful business. Because when you have a successful culture that you have defined and you have been intentional and focused about, anything else is possible. And so really tying back those performance standards, those behavior standards, all of the expectations back to the culture that you ultimately want to create. That is one of the things that I believe is the most important thing that you can do for your team because if they know what's expected of them, they can step up and shine. But if there is anything murky, if there's any of that ambiguity, if they don't know what they don't know, we are ultimately setting them up to fail as leaders.
Hayley Boling:And so again, I am a super transparent leader. I share openly numbers, financials, performance benchmarks. We're constantly looking at KPIs together and every single day I'm sharing numbers with my team. My entire full team, I'm actually sharing numbers with on a monthly basis that I personally lead. So any of the hard data, any of the hard information, I'm personally sharing it with them on a monthly basis.
Hayley Boling:But then we also have a communication structure that goes down to even daily communication touchpoints. So we don't wait for a performance review. We don't wait for a monthly check-in or even a weekly check-in. If there's something that we can do to reduce that ambiguity, provide that clarity, help set them up for success ultimately, and give them the tools that they need to succeed, we're going to do that. But again, transparency builds that trust.
Hayley Boling:Genuinely caring about my people is another thing that I think is super important. We have to remember that they're not just widgets or little spot in an assembly line. These are human beings, not just human doings. And so leaning into the human being side of them and telling them that I'm investing in you. And as a result of me investing in them, they're investing back in the practice and us as a culture.
Hayley Boling:But giving that clarity is ultimately the best thing that I can do to set people up for success and help them truly be the very best version of themselves possible.
Adrienne Lloyd:No, I love that. I love that so much. And I was on-site with a team earlier just this week and we doing both some of the non negotiables and really alignment of vision. And a lot of times, I mean, there's the logistical non negotiables of like, have to be here to actually work in on time and all those, but it's most importantly are how do you want to like work together and support each other and really creating that. You and I both have seen what keeps people, what reduces your turnover.
Adrienne Lloyd:I mean, clear accountability is knowing what success look like, but it's also the connection to their team members. And when they are kind of co creating and endorsing with each other what they're going to hold themselves accountable to, then they can start to self manage, which makes it easier on us as the leaders, right? Like they start to self correct when one person starts to push a boundary or get out of line and whether that's agreeing to have those difficult conversations or maybe it's to take a moment and pause before they have that difficult conversation so that it I think some of those things are just so important. And I think too, there's a lot of I love that you're sharing that directly with your team and your numbers and I think metrics too often can be met with anxiety from both providers and the staff as you start to roll them out, but they're so important and I know you know too, they're not a like one data point is not an end all be all for a decision. It's a combination of those things and it's really to help allow opportunities to dive in and see what needs to be fixed or what can be changed.
Adrienne Lloyd:And sometimes it is a people issue or conversation, but often it's the process or looking at what
Hayley Boling:can And providing that information, so I know that there is fear behind metrics sometimes because people look at accountability as scary. But when you do have that blend of both empathy and accountability so that you're creating that high performance culture, Everybody wants to be their very best version of themselves. And so having those conversations and incorporating them into the conversations early and often so that consistency becomes part of the routine, they actually come to expect it and they know that if our numbers aren't stellar, if we're falling short of some goals, I'm always going to provide the why behind that what as well. Not just going to come down hard on them. I might say, Hey, we fell a little short of our monthly goal, but here's the reason why.
Hayley Boling:No reason to panic. And so I always let them know that the why behind what we're seeing, because then they actually start to develop that critical thinking ability where they're able to say, Okay, well, have some doctor time out this month. And so because of the doctor time out, our financial goals might be a little bit different than what we normally see. And so by providing that information super frequently, like I said, early and often on a consistent basis, I'm taking away that fear element because I'm not only using them in punitive settings, I'm actually using them as a motivational tool. Let me tell you, when we hit our goals, we celebrate.
Hayley Boling:I have no problem implementing fun into my culture at Bowling Vision Center. I always say we're a work hard, play hard culture. Together, we know what success looks like, we set ourselves up for success, and then we play really hard together because ultimately we're with each other more often than we're even at home during non working hours, so we want to like each other and want to have that connection, going but back to that consistency so people don't fear the metrics is really important.
Adrienne Lloyd:I love that. What's your favorite celebration that you guys have done?
Hayley Boling:Oh, so every single year we have our annual in service. And so we close down every single one of our practice locations. We close on everything and we get together for a themed in service. This is all about building connection and camaraderie, but also education and inspiring and motivating people, connecting them back to our strategic plan and getting them excited about our vision, mission, values, our ultimate purpose and reason for being. It is a themed event and the team, they actually vote.
Hayley Boling:We do a live vote on themes and it gets really intense. We've done the greatest showman theme. We've done a Disney theme. We've done a rodeo theme and a casino theme where I actually bring in casino dealers and walking magicians. So we have a blast together during our learning opportunities, but during this annual in service, we celebrate those that have just kind of gone above and beyond.
Hayley Boling:And one of the things that is most coveted at Bowling Vision Center is our Lumiere Award. And Lumiere, I am Disney trained, Ritz Carlton trained and Disney trained. I like to bring different elements of other industries into healthcare. This Disney element comes from the movie, Beauty and the Beast. And we all remember Lumiere, the candlestick, and he sings the Be Our Guest.
Hayley Boling:Right? And the Bowling Vision Center, we don't have patients. We have guests. And ultimately, we want to recognize people for providing an amazing guest experience. It's a peer nominated award.
Hayley Boling:Every single month, we have a Lumiere that is voted on a monthly basis from the team. Then during that annual in service, every single person that won throughout the year gets put into a hat and we pull out one name and that person gets an all expenses paid trip for them and their family to Walt Disney World. If they're not Disney fans, we also have an alternative option, but I've only had that happen once. Everybody else wants to provide that magical experience for their family. But that's probably the biggest celebration that I love because I mean, have tears.
Hayley Boling:We have hired a live Lumiere to escort people on stage. We go up big and we go above and beyond. Again, it didn't start that way. What started as something where we were as a peer nominated award that we were recognizing amazing people. We were taking off our gotcha goggles, putting on our grateful glasses and trying to find and catch each other doing something right.
Hayley Boling:And that's how it started. But it has evolved into this thing where people, it is a coveted award and it is something that people strive toward. When they receive that honor, it is something that they don't forget. And so it's really, really central.
Adrienne Lloyd:I love it. Well, for those of you who are just listening and not watching recorded podcasts, you should she didn't know the question was coming, but the enthusiasm and excitement is like going through the screen right now. So it's awesome.
Hayley Boling:Very animated speaker. So One
Adrienne Lloyd:of the things, obviously, this is being a woman in kind of more of a male dominated industry as as we both are, but what are some strategies and things that you found that are helpful? As you think maybe even back early in your career, like what do you feel like has helped you kind of find your own path and really be able to kind of navigate and excel in so many ways and continue to do that? Like what has been either lessons or experiences that you've had that have kind of shaped where you are, others can learn from?
Hayley Boling:Yeah, I absolutely love this question. And I was a young woman when I took my role as CEO. Was actually 23 years old. While most people in their early 20s were out living it up, I was in my master's program, I was learning and leading and trying to digest as much information as possible as early as I could because I was green. And at that point, you don't even know what you don't know.
Hayley Boling:And so when you are young and you are in a position that impacts lives, thankfully I had the type of heart that I wanted to surround myself with really smart people. And so that was one of the things that I did because of my age and because of my gender and because of my personality, quite frankly, I was underestimated or I was kind of put aside as like, Oh, she's an energetic personality. Isn't it kind of
Adrienne Lloyd:underestimated and you're like, okay, I'm just going to sit back and
Hayley Boling:go ahead and underestimate me. That'll be fun. And so it was one of those things that like, yeah, so people kind of put me in this category as she's too young. She's too much of a woman, or she is too enthusiastic about life to be taken seriously in an executive role. And so that was kind of what I was facing early.
Hayley Boling:I also am a third generation leader practice. So there was this kind of right off the bat, people were kind of wondering if I was going to be able to do this or if I just kind of was handed the reins because of my last name. And so it was this really interesting dynamic. And I had some people that I truly believe wanted me to fail. And so I actually had some people that were straight nasty to me.
Hayley Boling:One person actually sent me a plant to the office that had, it was a dead plant with grim reapers in it. Not joking. And so that was quite the welcome. But again, it was one of those things that was intended to intimidate me, right? And not everybody has that kind of pushback, but I did.
Hayley Boling:And I realized early that in order to not only be taken seriously, but also to be the very best leader that I could be for the people that I had the privilege of leading, I needed to surround myself with really smart people. I needed to learn as much as I could as quickly as I could. And then I wanted to also make sure that I knew everything that I possibly could about the organization that I was leading. And so I actually spent about three months in every single role learning how to do what I was asking people and leading people to do. And so I learned how to be a technician.
Hayley Boling:I learned how to bill. I learned how to be an optician. I learned how to be in the call center and medical records, I've cleaned toilets and I've escorted patients to a variety of different places in the building, depending on what their needs were. But that gave me this three sixty degree view of what it took to succeed in our practice. And so I loved having that three sixty degree view.
Hayley Boling:It also gave me the opportunity to work alongside individuals that I was leading and to learn the strengths and the limitations of each person so that I could better lead them as well. I got to see them in action in kind of like a native environment, which is always good. But ultimately I wanted to make sure that I had wise counsel around me, people that were way smarter than me, people that had been in the role longer than me, somebody that I could bounce ideas off of, that I could go to on the days when self doubt or imposter syndrome sneaks in. Because at the end of the day, we've all had those moments where we're like, should I be doing And so having somebody that reminds me like, who the heck I am? Yeah.
Adrienne Lloyd:You're gonna
Hayley Boling:figure me out. Knock on
Adrienne Lloyd:the door. You're like, uh-oh. Yeah.
Hayley Boling:And like, it's somebody that can give you that pep talk when you need it because I'm usually the one giving the pep talks. To surround myself with people that I could go to if I needed a pep talk was really important early on, because especially as women, we are hard on ourselves. Oftentimes it's kind of sad to say, but sometimes we're also hard on each other. And so I'm just a believer that we don't have to try to lead as men. We don't have to try to fit this narrative that you have to be a certain type of way, which a lot of times people affiliate with the male type of leadership style, that doesn't necessarily have to be the mold for leaders everywhere.
Hayley Boling:And so my advice would be to surround yourself with really smart people, never stop learning, and then of course, figure out who you are as a leader and be authentic to you. Don't try to lead like a man or don't try to lead like Adrian or don't try to lead like Hailey, but lean into who you are and what makes you amazing as a human and what makes you amazing as a leader and fine tune that so that you are being the very best version of yourself for the people that you're leading. And a lot of this comes through that situational leadership. Leadership is not one size fits all. And so making sure that you're leading in a way that the person in front of you needs to be led.
Hayley Boling:And so not just saying, that's just who I am. That's how I am. Take it or leave it. The best leaders are those that are able to be flexible in the way that we actually lead others. And so learning that skillset, trying to identify those blind spots and making sure that you never stop learning or growing.
Hayley Boling:Cause if you, I think it was Albert Einstein that said, if you stop learning, you're dying. So just continue to invest in yourself because education is the one thing that nobody can ever take away from you. And so continue to invest in yourself, not just through books and podcasts like this and conferences and all that kind of stuff, but also investing in yourself emotionally and physically so that you can be your very best self.
Adrienne Lloyd:Yeah, no, and I think that's maybe going off script here a little bit, but I mean, think that's one of the things that's so important as leaders is that emotional and physical perspective. Because it, I mean, I know you've had moments as I definitely have where you've given literally everything to the role, to your team, to everyone else and you come home. Whether you have a family waiting at home or you've got friends or other relationships, like there's either nothing left or you're giving your last minuscule pieces to them and then you don't have anything left for yourself. And I think it's so easy to be on that roller coaster of whether it's physical, emotional. Okay.
Adrienne Lloyd:I'm doing good. And then three months and you find yourself back in that same cycle of just giving everything away. And I think it's the other thing I love about what you said is I think the more that we can, and I'm sure you feel as I do, as we get a little older in experience, maybe not in our age, but that you get more, you just kind of come more into who you are and what feels natural for you. And yes, you're accommodating with other people and that you're learning how to adjust and mold yourself, but you're also able to just be more relaxed leader in terms of how you show up and it can just feel more easeful. I think the word ease.
Adrienne Lloyd:Authentic. Yeah, authentic and
Hayley Boling:Right, yeah.
Adrienne Lloyd:It's still hard, it's still chaos, it's still stressful. It's all of those things. It's still more emotional than You would love it to be in certain moments, but I think it's, I encourage those that I, as I'm speaking or if I'm working with them coaching or otherwise, and as I know you do too, to really hone into what's going to be not only your team vision, your organizational vision, but what's your personal vision and are you moving that along so that you're fulfilling yourself along the way? I think it's just so important.
Hayley Boling:And at the end of the day, if you're proud of who you are, I think that that's one of the biggest things because early on, because I was a young woman with a kind of a high energy, but still able to be serious, don't get me wrong. I can have the hard conversations, but I also can inspire a room to act and I can inspire a room to dream. Right? And so there's this element of being engaging and dynamic while also still being able to lead the hard and challenging conversations. I think early on in my career, I was worried about coming across a certain way.
Hayley Boling:I was worried about coming across as too young or too naive or too feminine. Yeah.
Adrienne Lloyd:Like too positive even, right?
Hayley Boling:Too positive. Yes. I It's
Adrienne Lloyd:so sad. Like how sad is it that we're like, we're supposed to be leaders if we're not positive about the future?
Hayley Boling:Right. I always tell people, if you don't this face panic, nobody needs to panic. Yeah. This face doesn't panic, like the ultimate silver lining seeker. And so if this face isn't panicking, nobody needs to panic.
Hayley Boling:Even on the hardest of days, even on, if you think back to COVID when we all had to shut down our clinics and all that kind of stuff, that was the closest day that I had to this face being like, what do we do now? But still at the end of the day, we knew that we were going to still rally together and link arms and be in it together. But you're right, like being too positive, like to me, I think being positive is a really important quality in a leader. And I'm not talking about toxic positivity because there's this balance of not allowing people to be authentic to their emotion. So I'm a big believer feel it, but don't live there.
Hayley Boling:You know, that emotion, process that emotion. Let's work through that emotion, but not, let's not live there because that toxic negativity can actually do physical harms to our body as well. And so, but ultimately as a leader, figure out who you are, who you're proud to be, and then lean into it with authenticity and joy and fulfillment because you're going to be doing this a long time if you happen to be good at it. So if you're going be doing it a long time, you might as well find some joy joy in it. And so being yourself and loving who you are and what you offer the world is a really important part about being the best leader you can be.
Hayley Boling:Yeah,
Adrienne Lloyd:I know and I think it's, we owe it to ourselves, owe it to those like we love outside of the work, but we also owe it to our teams too because it's being a good example for them if they continue to see us. I know you and I have had this conversation too and we've both been bad examples at times because you're just kind of pushing through trying to putting yourself on the brink of burnout and they try to keep up like your high performers, your team that loves you wants to do that with you and be there and show up and they feel like they're letting you down if they don't. But I think it's just so important to kind of have those continual check ins and reset conversations like, okay, we have to do it differently. Like this isn't working. Like how do we get there?
Adrienne Lloyd:And yeah, I think it's just, it's so key, but I love this part for sure. And I think it's just great when people can find even one or two things that they've let slip outside, whether it's a hobby or taking time for themselves in some other health way or otherwise that it just, you can just see them like light up again. It's
Hayley Boling:That just light returns in them and there's like a twinkle in the eye that attracted you to them in the first place. Like that's why you wanted them on your team. That's ultimately why you wanted to be a leader was to share that kind of light or that joy or that positivity, whatever it may be. And you're right, when it returns to somebody after being gone for a while, it's a beautiful thing.
Adrienne Lloyd:Well, to that end, know you talked about too, like all of us as women and just in general, as leaders, like trying to help support each other. And I know you both do coaching and have done coaching, but in general professional development, how do you recommend if people are kind of looking a recommending having coach or accountability partner, someone who's mentor champion, whatever, there's all the different terms. Like how would you recommend somebody going about finding one or what's been maybe a valuable experience for you and having that support?
Hayley Boling:100%. I think the biggest thing that I want to say is that as women, is so important for us to support one another. This is not this is not the type of role that we should have scarcity mindset in. We should not be looking at this as, Oh, there's only one spot at the top and I'm going to get it and let me just go ahead and climb on everybody on my way to the top. As women, we have to do a better job of supporting and empowering and cheering each other on.
Hayley Boling:It goes back to that saying empowered women, empower women. And so looking for individuals that you can be a part of, they're part of your group, they're part of your team, they're part of your tribe, but that is going to continue inspire and motivate you. Finding those women who are empowered, who ultimately want to empower others so that you can be a part of that is a really big deal. And so I truly believe that if you lift as you climb, and so it's literally reaching out a hand and saying, come along with me, making introductions along the way. And again, rid of that scarcity mindset that, oh, I got to be the most important person in the room.
Hayley Boling:Because when you're making introductions and you're lifting as you climb, you're giving all of these women opportunities to shine.
Adrienne Lloyd:Let me
Hayley Boling:tell you, when a woman shines, we are unapologetically giving others the opportunity and permission to shine as well. And so I want to help other women shine. And so lifting as my climb, them early and often and loudly. So, you know, as soon as I got on this podcast, heard me say, Adrianne, you are brilliant. You are like, those are the types of things that I want to set as an example to other women that it doesn't diminish your value by shining the light on another woman's value.
Hayley Boling:In fact, it elevates everybody and a rising tide raises all ships. And so lifting as you climb celebrating loudly making introductions. And then of course this whole mentorship without judgment. Because I think a lot of people that are worried about having a coach worried about, because what if they think less of you because you all of a sudden need to have somebody in your life that's kind of helping you navigate the hard stuff. And in leadership positions like ours, we have to have others that we can lean on.
Adrienne Lloyd:Right.
Hayley Boling:It's going to feel really lonely and nobody needs to feel lonely in this type of role. Eagles oftentimes fly alone. I get that. But that doesn't mean that we don't find other people to be in community with. And so whether that is a coach or somebody, I always recommend finding somebody that you trust, find somebody that believes in you, and then finding somebody that is going to remind you who the heck you are on days when self doubt creeps in.
Hayley Boling:Because if you are the type of leader that thinks you're the smartest person in the room or that you have nowhere else to go, or you have accomplished it all, or nobody else to add to you, you have, you have have lost the mark.
Adrienne Lloyd:You probably
Hayley Boling:should no longer be a leader if that's really where you believe you are. And so having that person that's going to help you self correct, that's going to encourage you and remind you who you ultimately want to be. But that mentorship without judgment is really important. And then finally, I'm a big believer that representation matters. And so making sure that you are leaning into somebody that you ultimately enjoy being around, but that representation, whether it's another woman or if it's a person of color or if it's a different religion or whatever that diversity may be, we owe it to the communities that we serve to have representation of diversity around the table.
Hayley Boling:And so if everybody in the room looks exactly the same or thinks exactly the same or loves exactly the same, whatever it may be, we are not doing our communities justice. We are not appropriately and accurately representing the beautiful diversity that make up our communities. And so making sure as leaders that we are inviting people to the table so that they can have a voice and that others around the world can look and say, they get it because representation matters. I see somebody that looks like me or sounds like me or whatever it may be around that table. And so I know that this can be a touchy subject for some, but I'm a big believer that representation, diversity matters.
Hayley Boling:Getting those diverse perspectives around the table because we're all smarter, we're all more approachable, we're all more beautiful, but at the end of the day, we're all going to be able to serve the general public and the people that are trusting us in better and more meaningful ways.
Adrienne Lloyd:No, I agree. Think that's where it's so important to have people like you and my world and others both to be the support and mirror. And there's so many different ways and whether it's self doubt or sometimes it may just be us going too hard, too fast in one direction and somebody else to be like, are you sure that's the direction you want to be? And maybe it is, but just that mirror, that checkpoint of really the support. And I know I love, like I have my own coaches that I have had and been immensely helpful for me.
Adrienne Lloyd:I've probably had coaches for the last five or seven years and I'm so helpful and I celebrate that. Like I love to brag on,
Hayley Boling:I'm going to talk to
Adrienne Lloyd:them about that and I'm going to get input and I know you love to do that with other people too and it's just so important. I think if you do find yourself in a situation where you're working with a coach, mentor, champion, whatever it is and it doesn't feel like you're able to be honest, raw and share how you're feeling or that you're not getting back what you need, then it is something that to kind of look at. Time to shift that relationship or end it even, yeah, I think it's just such an important factor as we all continue to learn and evolve over the next I mean, I know I've been working twenty plus years in healthcare as I know you have, and I probably still have that same amount of time ahead of me. I love, I can't imagine retiring. Think it's just, there's so much to do.
Adrienne Lloyd:There's so much opportunity. It really can't be a scarcity mindset because it's going to continue to change and evolve. And I think for any of those leaders who are like you, who are passionate and excited about what they're doing and truly in it for the people they care about and the patients that those people help serve. We need more of those, but we have to create infrastructure and conversations to allow us to still have the energy and the excitement to show up in the same ways. I think that's just something to continue to move forward.
Adrienne Lloyd:I'm at the
Hayley Boling:end of the day also with the whole coaching side of thing, and one more little thing that jumped into my mind, making sure that we don't surround ourselves with only yes people. We don't want to be in an echo chamber that only has voices that hear and think like ourselves. So when you said like having that checkpoint or having that mirror, having those rumble strips in your life, If something might feel off or if something needs to be like, Hey, let's go ahead and talk about this. Is this who you ultimately want to be? Is this going to make you proud?
Hayley Boling:Is this a headline that you would want on the front page of your newspaper or news article? So having those people that can help remind you who you are and remind you who you ultimately want to be. That's a really important role of a coach. And so not finding somebody that just agrees with you because you're paying them a fee. You don't want that echo chamber.
Hayley Boling:So the people on your team surrounding yourself with people that don't necessarily think like you are also super important. And so making sure that like get rid of the echo chambers in your life so that, and then of course make sure that you're surrounding yourself with people that genuinely care about you and understand your purpose so that if you start to stray a bit and there are moments in life where sometimes we all, all of a sudden we look up and we're like, how did I get here?
Adrienne Lloyd:Which sometimes it's a great surprise and a wonderful surprise and like you couldn't have imagined and that's amazing and that other times it's yeah, what is that like one year, three year vision you each have for yourself? And is each step kind of heading you down that path? Yeah.
Hayley Boling:Finding those people though to help keep you on mission, on purpose is just so critical.
Adrienne Lloyd:Yeah. I've loved this conversation just in kind of wrapping us up. Is there one thing that you wish you would have known or maybe thought through or done differently early on that you think others do?
Hayley Boling:You know, this is one of my very favorite questions. So I am by nature of type A personality. I know that's shocking to everybody in here probably.
Adrienne Lloyd:Not at all. And
Hayley Boling:so I am a kind of a high achiever. I've always been a striver. I am a, if I can find a way to succeed in, with integrity and compassion and excellence, I'm always going to try to find those opportunities. So as an individual, there's a bit of this perfectionism to me, which it has been really challenging as a young leader, because ultimately what I have learned, and I want every single human being that's listening to this to hear me say, that perfection is not an attainable human quality. If we are expecting perfection out of ourselves, we are going to be disappointed often.
Hayley Boling:But if you can't remember that for yourself, if you can't remember that for your own self love and self compassion, I want you to remember this for the people that you serve. Because expecting perfection out of yourself, you are likely expecting perfection out of the people that surround you as well. You are setting them up to fail and feel like failures as well. And so making yourself really open and honest about the fact that perfection is not an attainable human quality and extending grace, extending compassion, extending understanding to not only those that you serve, but also yourself and not expecting yourself out of others, I think is a really big thing that I had to learn early. Because at the end of the day, the pressure that I put on myself, they are putting on themselves because they are running in the same direction that I'm running.
Hayley Boling:And so I want to make sure that people understand that progress over perfection. I want to speak in ways that people want to listen to me, and I want to listen in ways that people want to speak to me. And those are the types of things when you will allow yourself to know that perfection isn't attainable, you're going to be a better listener, you're going to be a better speaker, you are going to be a better leader. And so giving yourself that grace, giving others grace. And then the last thing is that there are going to be times where you have to make a decision with the information that you have at the time, because it's impossible to have every data point in front of you.
Adrienne Lloyd:Yeah, we never make a decision. We never move forward.
Hayley Boling:It would be decision paralysis all the time and that's exhausting in and of itself. Right? And so ultimately you are going to be required to make decisions based on information that you have at the time. What I encourage all leaders to know is that there are going to be times where you have to change course. There are going be times where you have to say the decision that I made isn't the best decision now that I have new information.
Hayley Boling:And so being willing to say it's time to pivot or it's time to course correct. And most importantly, when that impacts other people's lives, roles, responsibilities, the way that they view themselves, as a leader, Having the compassion and the empathy and the vulnerability and the softness to say, I'm sorry. It's one of the most important qualities that we can have as leaders to say, I'm sorry, when something impacts or hurts the feelings of even. And so making sure that you allow yourself that ability to do that, because let me tell you, when you apologize and you don't expect perfection, you are going to have a team that trusts you, that ultimately love working alongside you. And they're also going to, if they fall short, they're not going to feel as though that you're going to turn on them.
Hayley Boling:It's going to be a failing, failing forward moment, as opposed to a fatal failure moment. And so those are the things that I wish I had known early that I have learned. But most importantly, perfection is not an attainable human quality. Be willing to course correct. Don't try to stick to something because you made the decision and you're worried about the perception of changing course once you have new information.
Hayley Boling:And then of course being willing to say, I'm sorry.
Adrienne Lloyd:Yeah. And I think all of those, I love all of those. And I think it's also too like forgiving yourself, not knowing any answers, in a way whether or not you're outwardly feel like you're expecting perfection or your expectations of others are that of yourself, whether you're actually articulating that or feeling like you're holding them to that doesn't necessarily matter. If they're seeing you require all of those things of yourself and be stuck in that kind of cycle, then they're going to, again, because they do care about you, they do want to achieve just like we would if we were kids and we're trying to meet our parents' expectations, All of those same kind of instinctive responses and so I think it's all the things that we've talked about of just being authentic, knowing who you are and learning more and more about yourself every day so you can show up authentically so it feels more easeful and so you can really build that trust and culture and community with your team and pulling in resources whenever you need them. I just love all of them so much.
Hayley Boling:It really is everything. The, those little bits of advice and the last bit is never stop learning. Be intentional, be focused about who you want to be, the type of leader you want to be, and then never stop learning and continuously growing and developing so that you can be the very best version of yourself. And there are
Adrienne Lloyd:going to
Hayley Boling:be some days where giving more than others. And that's just part of the leadership journey that there are going to be some days where you're able to give more. And so again, give yourself that grace and just remember perfection is not an attainable human quality.
Adrienne Lloyd:Agreed. Well, Hayley, thank you so, so much. And everybody, we will give you Hayley's contact information if you do want to reach out to her and that we just, I so appreciate your time and it's been such a pleasure. My cheeks already hurt from like smiling the whole time, but it's great. So I'm glad we were able to do this and I know everybody will really just benefit listening everything you shared today.
Adrienne Lloyd:So thank you. And thank
Hayley Boling:you all the listeners out there. I look forward to hearing from you.
Adrienne Lloyd:Yes. Thank you guys. We'll talk to
Hayley Boling:you soon.
