MGMA Podcasts

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Daniel,

Daniel Williams 0:10
Well, hi everyone. I'm Daniel Williams, senior editor at MGMA and host of the MGMA Podcast Network. We're back with another bonus episode highlighting the work of our MGMA resource groups today. MGMA editor and writer Colleen Luckett sits down with members of the women leaders in healthcare resource group, Cheryl Mangillo, Dolores, McNair and Paola Turchi. Their conversation centers on support empowerment in the importance of creating meaningful connections and mentorship opportunities for women in healthcare leadership. Let's go to their conversation now.

Colleen Luckett 0:50
Just tell me, from your experience, what does this resource group mean to you? Why did you step up to lead it? Paula, why

Paola Turchi 0:56
don't you start Okay, Colleen, one of the things that I have learned as I have like grown in the leadership path through my career is that it gets very lonely at the top, and as you are growing as a professional, as a leader, you lose those connections that you have to bounce ideas with, to discuss the challenges that you might have to see the solutions that you are thinking about, resonate or make sense. And that, to me, has been an eye opener in regards to the importance of networking and having a group of individuals that you trust, that you can bounce ideas with and with that. I joined teeth about a couple years ago, and it was a great experience for me to connect with other women in leadership and to understand their challenges, personally, professionally. And when this opportunity came up, and Amanda was talking about it, I had already left chief, and I'm like, oh my god, this is the place where I'm going to fill that hole, because I have already made a lot of connections. That's fantastic. And also, since I had that opportunity, and I found it so helpful, I wanted to be able to also give back to the community and be able to provide a forum in which these will be leveraged by others and continue to work together. Thank

Colleen Luckett 2:16
you, Paula, why don't we go to Dolores? I

Delores McNair 2:19
think it's one of those times where you know that you have met your peeps. And I'm not referring to women, I'm referring to the environment, the atmosphere, and as a person, first, not just one person knows what it's like to be looking for the door, the opportunity for a mentor, for a friend, for someone that is a sounding board, supportive foundation. That's what I found, is being a member of MGMA. MGMA was that place where the resources that I could get, but I could give and have the limit knowing I'd get back was something so exciting. And then Amanda said we could partner. This wasn't going to be just me trying to a resource. This was me with someone I'd never known, someone I'd never met, and I met Paula and Cheryl, and knew that we were going to just feed off each other and give the a great dinner to all the people who would attend. And once we got together, I could honestly say the networking, as Paula said, is great, but more than that, the support, whether it's a legal matter, an organizational matter, an educational matter, a mentorship matter, a financial matter, a matter of just how should I walk into a room? That's what everyone gets when we come together. Because there are no barriers and there's no judgment. It's simply resources for women in healthcare, leaders now and leaders to come, and it's wonderful,

Colleen Luckett 3:57
awesome. Yeah, you all are dynamic. I i sat in a little fly on the wall, and you're the women's group, and it was really amazing listening to everyone come together like that. Cheryl, I'll let

Cheryl Mongillo 4:08
you take it away. I work in a private practice, which I worked in healthcare systems, where there were always plenty of people to ask questions to in a private practice, you're on a little island here, and it's really important to be able to reach out and find those other resources so you know what you're doing. And that seems to be a big piece. I know I've done a couple of talks at NGMA and few things like that, and that's always my biggest thing is that the people that you meet and the backgrounds that come from are so diverse that you can learn something from everybody,

Colleen Luckett 4:40
awesome. I did want to touch on in the group, when so your last meeting, I noticed that a huge thing that came about was mentorship. That seemed to be like, I think you talked about that most of the time, basically just if you could talk about what mentorship has meant to. You did that influence you to take on this role, or your role as a healthcare leader? How that influenced you in your career, etc? And then pivot to what you all talked about in the resource group with other women, talking about mentorship. And I'm going to start with Cheryl this time. Actually, it's

Cheryl Mongillo 5:16
funny, because I started out, I'll be honest with you, I started out as a secretary at the hospital, which is an admirable job, don't I'm not just disagreeing that, but one of the vice presidents, who was a woman, took me under her wing, and she taught me that you have to be tough and you have to be she was a pediatrician, and she's 78 now, so she 60, no, she just turned 80. I apologize. She just turned 80. Wow. So she came through the ranks back when women say to secretaries, and she she took me under wing, and she you don't have to stay here. You can move on. And she taught me that you need to be forceful and you need to get rid of some of those email things that they teach us, like, Oh, you have to be nicer. Oh, you have to be this. You have to be nice. Don't misunderstand me, but you have to be assertive, you have to be confident, you have to be all of those things. And just because people think that makes you look bossy, they wouldn't say that about a guy. So she did that for me, and I have, in turn, felt an obligation to do that to others, because otherwise I would still be a secretary, again, not paying but I can do so much more now, and I think that's really where the mentorship thing comes from. And it's good to have somebody. It's like having a therapist, like having somebody that's there to have your back and say, Hey, maybe that's not a good thing and be honest. And sometimes I say things to the people that I'm mentoring, and I'm like, that probably wasn't your best idea, but that's okay, because it's your best interest, so I guess, and that's why I really feel like I really want to help and develop, because I don't want to work forever. Good point, yes, all right, let

Colleen Luckett 7:07
me go back. I'm going to go back to let's go Paula and then Dolores. Okay,

Paola Turchi 7:12
Pauline, interestingly enough, I have not had official mentor through my career. I have had people that has helped me through my different roles to be better at what I did that provided feedback. Never had these very official mentor as or be part of a mentorship program as you know it, right, or as we know it. What I did, however, developed was a board of directors. So I had a group of people in which or I engage with, a group of people in which I was able to share with them my challenges provide the solutions that I was coming up with. Where could I go with the career path I was taking? What they will suggest me to be the next opportunity? How do I manage difficult situations with my leader or with my team members? So didn't have the one person that is that was my mentor, per se. So to me, in that regards, was a little different. That being said, I guess I'm about to embark in a program like that. So at Harris computers, we have an executive program that is called for C and it is a program in which they are training their leaders to become executive vice president, vice presidents of their different business units. And through this program, which is a year long, they assign mentors to each one of those that have applied. So I guess, will officially be in this kind of like mentorship program, at least for myself, being a mentee. So and we'll have more to share about that once, once I go through that opportunity, what I would say is that instead, I had a board of directors that facilitated, had facilitated some of that need, or, yeah, they need the expertise to get that kind of feedback. In regards to now, mentoring people, I struggle with the difference between mentoring and coaching, right? But I don't know if it's like Spanx type of thing, just a second language barrier for the Colombian. Being said is do a lot of coaching of my team members, because I want them to be better than I am. I want my team to be stronger than the one individual. And so there is a lot of coaching that happens when I am working with my direct reports. So I have been a mentor, but I have never been a mentee.

Colleen Luckett 9:40
Okay, cool. Thanks, Paula and Cheryl and Dolores. What do you have any so the question was, the mentorship in your career, has that helped you at all? And then I'm going to come back to you all if you can talk about the conversation the last women's research group meeting around mentorships. So

Delores McNair 9:56
for me, I am fortunate that I was. Toured, and I remember my very first mentor was mentoring me, and I had never heard the word used in the term we all know it, so that I actually stood up in a big room and made a comment about, well, I don't know if this particular person knows it, but I feel they've been mentoring me, only to have them later tell me that they had been intentional in everything they'd done, and they knew they were mentoring me, but they weren't offended, because what they shared with me was it let them know that they weren't being the best mentor as they could be, because I should have known it, and that was my first glimpse into Good, great mentoring was to have someone be so transparent, so willing to say, You know what, I am mentoring you, but if you didn't know it officially, then there's something I didn't do, right? And I think it set the course for me, not just for my career, but it was a rail that they gave me to hold on to when I need it. It was a platform to stand on when I need it, and I'm so thankful for that, because it led me to actually start my own business where I do mentoring, and I don't do it in the sense that most people would think of a business, but that is how I got exposed to mentoring, and mentoring was a large part to me going into health care, staying in healthcare, moving up in healthcare, and being a mentor myself and so many people out there who want to mentor I wanted one later in my career, and that's when I realized there weren't a lot of people willing to truly mentor me. They weren't maybe secure enough my words to do it, or they didn't want to take the time away from their own career to do it. Therefore, I was forced to do a lot of my own and that's what led me to want to be a good mentor, always improving, always getting better, always finding one more mentee. And that's what led me also from the mentees that I had saying, You know what, Dolores. Some people call me, Dee. They were like, Dee, you should do this more. You should do this because you love it. You should do it because you're good at it, and you should do it as a business, not just always giving so much of yourself freely. And I was shocked to have people say that, but then what I found it did was it helped me. It they became my mentors. Things that they asked helped me grow. I learned new skills, new emotional intelligence, courses that I never would have possibly found as quickly on my own, but because of the mentees, I did and MGMA, I'm a mentor with MGMA, and I love knowing that I've got people waiting. They're like, I'll wait for you. I know I have to wait till you have another opening. But that fuels me, and it fuels me to keep growing. It fuels me to keep learning and to keep giving back as a mentor, that's

Colleen Luckett 12:57
a natural transition to leading this resource for your coffee to foot. What a good pick. Okay, and on that note, if you all could just talk a little bit more about so that conversation you all had in the women's group, the group meeting, which, such as a couple weeks ago, time has no meaning for me anymore. And then talk about that conversation. How did it strike you where you like, was it like, Oh yeah, that seems natural. We aren't really talking about this. Or was it like, Whoa, that was a huge like, how did you feel about it? And then what have you talked about that outside the meeting? And is there anything happening with mentorship going forward through that group, that that made sense lean, it

Paola Turchi 13:35
was a great conversation. A lot of interest on the mentorship program, especially because at the beginning of the beginning of the call, we mentioned that MGMA has these available so really able to leverage the benefits that they have just by being a member of MGMA. So P was not surprising that the conversation came up. What? What really got my attention were two things. One, they, of course, the need to find a mentor, or the need to find a board of directors if you just don't have an official mentor. So that topic came up, and there were a couple of people, including in with myself as well, that normally brought that concept into the discussion. But it's you just there are other ways of getting feedback, of learning from others, besides just going to a mentor, per se. So that was one of the things that was brought up that I thought provided value to those that were on the call. And the other thing that really got an attention was related to person that have had a bad experience in with mentorship, and just because there was not a click, and therefore she had assumed that, because there was not a sitting work mentorship was not for her, or that type of a program was not for her. And it was very exciting to see the response of the other people that attended the call in which, hey, one needs to be resilient about finding the right mentor. There. There is a relationship that builds. There is a click that pays for it to work, and just because it did not work the first time, that not mean that it will not work the next time, and to not give up, but to continue in the lookout for this opportunity, because it really helps individuals grow as people and professionally. So those were the two items that I will call out in regards to that conversation. And definitely I did it because we opened the conversation saying that MGMA had a mentorship program, so doesn't surprise me. Yeah.

Colleen Luckett 15:28
Okay, great. Thanks, Dolores. Did you have anything additional there? I think

Delores McNair 15:33
so often individuals are looking for a mentor who is their BFF, and they are forgetting. A mentor should support challenge you to go where you want to go, where you need to go. Tell you what you may not want to hear, but what you need to hear, as Cheryl said before, sometimes you have to say that may not be the best idea. And what I perceived when we were in the Women's Resource Group is that the meeting was talking about mentorship, but people sometimes are looking for possibly a BFF in a mentor. But what you find when your mentor is not your BFF, you learn how to develop stronger as a leader with personalities that you don't click with. How do I have those conversations that are going to be challenging as a leader, a C suite leader, if I don't test it out in other, safer arenas? So I think that's something that I hope people saw in that meeting we had for the first time, and it was a great attendance. But as we talk about mentorship there, and I hope as we go forward, people will see mentorship should be a place that you are uncomfortable sometimes and that it doesn't always feel perfect. But when it's all said and done at some point not too far down the road, you can reflect back and realize you actually had a piece of coal that when you dropped it, you saw the glimpse of a diamond underneath. And during the Women's Resource Group, what I saw was people who were thinking they were a piece of coal actually finding out there's a diamond in here, people who were comfortable leading, but still had questions, willing to come into the mind and meet the people who hadn't become a polished diamond yet, and people very willingly sharing this is who I am, how you connect with me, how I can maybe help you. And even when people couldn't, I thought was just amazing, the empathy that was put in the chat and verbalized. There were some people who didn't have their face up, who brought their face up to support individuals, knowing that we hear you, we understand and just from a emotional support, we're here for you. So I do think mentorship is key. I don't think that's going to go away, particularly in the Women's Resource Group, yet. I think Paula Cheryl are key people, and myself, we want to show them that there are so many pathways and leadership won't look the same for everybody, and it may not be the same for everybody at the same time. But as Cheryl was saying, and Paula was saying, whether it's a board of directors, whether it's a mentor fight to give the best of you, and you will get the best back. And if that door doesn't open, just know that door may not have been for you at this time, but that doesn't mean you can't knock on it again, and that's what mentorship is really about. I think that's what the MGMA mentorship program attempts to give people a chance. You can read people's profiles. You can actually choose a mentor based on seeing some information. It's not a blind date completely. And what better way to get started is through the Women's Resource Group, through a platform that is not a blind date. But then, as Paula and I saw in that meeting, noted, there are so many other resources out there for other form of mentorship, groups, in organizations in the community, some nonprofit, some for profit, some free, some of charge, but you just got to keep knocking like Cheryl said, it's nothing wrong with choosing to be at a certain level for a long time, but don't be there because you think you can't go somewhere else you can.

Speaker 1 19:14
I think that's the biggest piece that I like to share. And again, there's nothing wrong with being where you want to be and where you're comfortable.

Paola Turchi 19:22
Elena, I wanted to add that one of the things that I have learned later in life I wish I did earlier, was that you get out of your efforts, what you put in it. And when one is talking about mentorship, when one is talking about engaging a community, when one is talking about leveraging new people that you have met. If you don't engage, you're not going to get anything out of it. If you're not somehow put yourself somewhat in a vulnerable position, you're not going to get the feedback that you need and and if you're just waiting for it to fall in the lab and for people to make. A path for you to success. You're You're just not gonna get it, and you're gonna fail in that process. So so what I try to tell people, and I wish I had known that earlier in my career, is that the put, the effort that you put, and I'm not talking about the effort at work, everybody gives it 100% 200% I'm talking about the effort of developing relationships, of putting yourself out there to create these connections, is the effort that I'm talking about

Colleen Luckett 20:26
that's, I'm glad you brought up vulnerability, because that is a word that kept coming up with my interview with the the black healthcare leaders resource group, folks, I'm going off my script a little bit, but with that word, vulnerability, can you talk about and we'll bring Cheryl back in and be vulnerable in the resource group and make it work for them, if that

Speaker 1 20:45
makes sense. So I think there's two. It's a double edged sword, because you want to have confidence enough. But I think sometimes I find that some of my colleagues feel that if they share too much, then they don't have the power, and they don't seem to understand that by sharing more the more people know, the more people know, and it lightens the burden for all of us, and it makes all of us better. And I think that back to that whole mean, you have to be mean, you have to be this. You have to be that, I think that some of my colleagues have forgotten that what makes us great leaders as women is that we are sensitive. We have had maybe we've had children, maybe we've been walked in those shoes, and we can be a little more empathetic, sympathetic and understanding, but still be a force to be reckoned with. We still earn that. We have that responsibility, we have those titles, and we have that we've earned that respect, but that doesn't mean we have to, like let go of all those other things. And I think that's the piece that I really try to stress when I am mentoring somebody, is that you don't have to be the big, bad monster. You just have to be fair, equitable. And I think that's one of the things that frustrates me. And even now, I have a couple of colleagues, and I just I cringe when I have to sit on a committee with them, because they're just not they just don't want to be teen people, because they worked so hard and they walled their way up, and they're just going to make sure they stay there. And it's, yeah, but there's one for all of us.

Colleen Luckett 22:27
Yeah, exactly. Okay, Dolores, do you have some things you can share on that? So the question, again, is just showing up with vulnerability, how that can tie in with the resource group and networking and those kinds of things. What's specifically women

Delores McNair 22:44
Paula and I were in Denver, and I presented on a particular topic, and during women's resource, Paula had a chance to get to know me, and I got a chance to get to know her. And she'll tell you we'd never met before, other than on the zooms. And she's very authentic, but so am I, and that's where I think women are missing the opportunity to be vulnerable. Simply Be you. I don't even use the word firm. I have a naturally firm sounding voice, therefore everyone assumes that I'm firm. They assume that maybe not that much in touch with my emotions. What I found, though, is if I can just be me, it helped me a lot, because I am not one who will be vulnerable in any setting. Very rarely would I do it, and where I found my comfort was with Mentees, because I needed them to be vulnerable so I could help them, but I can't ask them to do something I won't do, because one of my key morals is to try not to be a hypocrite. So what has helped me to be more vulnerable in those settings with other women is just being authentic and saying, You know what, I'm glad that you feel I'm very confident. I'm glad that you feel like I've got it all together. At this moment, I'm perspiring down my back, but let's move on. The presentation says, and I move on. And Paula will tell you, I did do that very similar. I had something happen, and during the Denver conference, I wasn't able to walk quite as well, and had to get a cane, actually, because of something. And I used it to my advantage. I made it a fashion statement, and I allowed myself to be authentically me in that moment. And I believe that's where we, in this Women's Resource Group can help people find ways to be, as Cheryl said, you can have a voice like mine, and people can still be okay in your presence. You can have a voice that's very soft, but the way you feel on the inside will determine what people perceive on the outside. You don't have to be a tiger or bear to make it to the top, but you do need to be you, because if you can't be you all the way to the top, often you'll get there, and as Paula said, it is lonely at the top, and you'll be very lonely because you don't know yourself and you won't know anyone else. So I would encourage every woman like yourself alone. On every path of the journey. You don't want to get to the top and find out you don't even like being there with yourself. Vulnerability is a part of who we all are. Just acknowledge it. You don't have to be law. You don't have to break down crying, but you are you, and that's why we need your diverse perspective and thoughts in every space that we can get to the table. Oh,

Colleen Luckett 25:22
awesome. I really appreciate you all. Thank you so much, and thanks for

Speaker 2 25:26
all you do yet again. All right, thank you the rest of the day. Talk to you later. Bye, bye.

Daniel Williams 25:35
Thanks again to Colleen, Cheryl, Dolores and Paola for that thoughtful conversation, and thank you for listening to this bonus episode from the MGMA Podcast Network. I'll include a direct link in the episode show notes so you can learn more about how to get involved and have your voice heard in one of mgmas resource groups. We'll see you next time you.

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