Recruit Smarter, Retain Longer: A Conversation with Jessica Minesinger on Building Belonging from Day One
Download MP3Well, hi, everyone. I'm Daniel Williams, senior editor at MGMA and host of the MGMA Podcast Network. Happy 2026. This is our first episode of the new year. We're really excited about this.
Daniel Williams:And so for the whole month of January, we're really going to be looking at things that people think about in January, like new changes, staffing, culture, recruitment, retention, hiring people, all of those things. And so for today, we're bringing on a repeat guest. I had to look it up. We had Jessica Meinsinger own all the way back in 2022, and Jessica is an MGMA consultant, but also founder and CEO of Surgical Compensation and Consulting. She has her CMOM and her FACMPE.
Daniel Williams:Jessica, had no idea it had been this long since we had you on the show, so I wanted to say welcome back.
Jessica Minesinger:Thanks so much. I'm thrilled to be here and couldn't be happier to be part of welcoming everybody into the new year and really focusing on some issues that can make a incredible impact on your practice, your organization.
Daniel Williams:Yeah. I appreciate that. And I was thinking, you know, throughout the last few weeks, what do we wanna do in the month of January with our shows? And I really wanted to go thematic with this and really drill down into culture, into recruitment, into once you get people on board, how do you retain them? And then you've also got in your skill set and knowledge base, you know a lot about physician compensation, so that may play a role today as we're talking.
Daniel Williams:We'll see about that part. Before we get too far into this, what can you tell our listeners, anybody who didn't already hear the 2022 episode and knows more about you, what's just a little bit, a snippet of that health care journey you might wanna share with us?
Jessica Minesinger:You know, I'm so pleased to be part of, hopefully, a really positive part of the health care sector in that, you know, my goal is to really bridge the gap between physicians and employers and to enable physicians who were in privately owned practices, you know, with the end goal really being to keep as many physicians practicing in medicine for as long as possible. You know, we really have a a supply and demand issue with physicians. You know? We have a, you know, a growing demand of of patients, of population, and just not enough physicians to meet that demand. So, you know, my journey in health care has been, gosh, almost fifteen years now, perhaps more.
Jessica Minesinger:Started running, managing trauma and acute care surgery practice at a level two trauma center and just really brought all of the business acumen that I had had up into that point into, you know, this incredible practice of trauma surgeons, acute care surgeons, trauma orthopedic surgeons, and just found a tremendous sort of symbiosis in, you know, what I could do to help them navigate the business of medicine and, you know, support them to provide just incredible patient care, trauma education, and outreach. And so I'm I'm still here, doing this and working with individual physicians, groups, hospital systems to really navigate compensation, which has become incredibly complex around physician compensation, and to to really improve the culture around that, trust and transparency. And like I said, really with the ultimate goal of keeping as many physicians in medicine engaged in patient care as possible.
Daniel Williams:That is wonderful. Now I will add something. You and I were talking offline. I was catching up with you. We may have talked offline, not publicly since 2022.
Daniel Williams:I think we have, but not on a podcast. And so you were telling me, I was saying, Hey, what are you up to these days? And you said a lot of travel. You're doing a lot of speaking. You're doing a lot of flying around the country.
Daniel Williams:Tell us a little bit about that. I mean, because you and I are talking via Zoom. We're on a Zoom call here. But it when you're working with clients, do they wanna see you in person, or is it the public speaking that has you on the road, so to speak?
Jessica Minesinger:Yeah. It's a bit of both. So, the majority of the travel is public speaking, but there are times when I'm on-site, for groups holding stakeholder meetings, meeting with administrative leaders, boards of directors, to report on physician compensation trends, recommendations, data. And so, yeah, there's just been quite a bit of travel. I I'm really passionate about, bridging that gap between administrators, employers, practice managers, and physicians.
Jessica Minesinger:I think there's just nothing more important, than, you know, in your practice, in your organization, to kind of perhaps change the mindset around those relationships, that culture, how to have those discussions effectively. So I've just been really blessed to, to be able to have the opportunity to speak to groups, you know, large and small, to talk about, ways that this can impact recruitment, retention, how just the the tools that MGMA brings to the table, that that, you know, you're not alone in this process. There's so many tools and so much data available. So, yeah, there's just been an incredible amount of of travel and opportunities to share that information. I'm I feel very blessed to do that, and to you know, in kind of the lens of physician advocacy and and empowering administrators and practice leaders and health care executives to sort of think outside the box around this and the the impact that can have, positively on your organization.
Daniel Williams:You mentioned something interesting that is not new to anybody listening here. There is a physician shortage, and so that is top of mind for practice administrators, for practice and health systems and, different organizations in healthcare. So when you think about that, when there is this shortage, what is the biggest challenge then to recruiting physicians today? We're we're talking we're gonna be recruiting in 2026. We're gonna at least start the process because as we know, it can take eighteen months, two years.
Daniel Williams:I mean, it can take a minute. It's not like you just look in the one ads and then hire somebody and they come in tomorrow. This is gonna be a process. So what really seems to be one of those roadblocks impediments that practices and practice leaders face when recruiting physicians today?
Jessica Minesinger:So I think, at times, what I find is that desperation is high. Right? We we need to get this, position replaced or we need to add to this this specialty. And so there's, you know, so the the offer is designed in a way that has a, you know, perhaps a high guaranteed compensation, from the outset. And, you know, perhaps that's two years or three year guarantee.
Jessica Minesinger:We see that often. And then it flips to a productivity model, or it flips to somewhat of a hybrid model with a productivity emphasis. So I'm seeing a lot of organizations pushing to really get someone in the door through the recruitment process, and that's tough because depending on the specialty, your region, whether you're rural or or not rural, depending on the circumstances around the recruitment, you know, it it can be really difficult to get that person in. And then so there's roadblocks there, for rural hospitals and practices. But the key is at the end of that two to three year period when that guarantee shifts to make sure that you've got an offer in place, where the physician has realistic, productivity thresholds, so that you're that person isn't sliding backwards, from a compensation standpoint.
Jessica Minesinger:They haven't been relocated to a hospital, out clinic that they can't generate enough productivity from. I so those are some of the challenges, all of which, really, there are just incredible strategies to to address these. It's just going in with a really proactive mindset. And, also, I think too, there's, you know, in this in this kind of push to recruit, it's still super important to to know that the candidate and whether this is a, you know, a new, candidate out of residency or fellowship or somebody who's mid career, it's just really important to make sure that that the fit aligns in terms of work life balance, location of you know, is this person gonna be happy in a rural location? You know, is the culture of the organization a good fit?
Jessica Minesinger:Is this a physician who really wants to do research, wants to pursue leadership opportunities? Are, are you having those discussions with that with that candidate up front to make sure that your practice or hospital system is the right fit. And so I just think there's so much positive work that can be done sort of laying the groundwork to make sure that that you're the right fit for that candidate, and that candidate is the right fit for you. So asking those questions is so powerful, and that can really they're that's the key to retention. Right?
Jessica Minesinger:So it's not just getting them in the door because you're investing so much money to do that. So the key is successful recruitment, long term retention. But there's a rush. There's an urgency right now that I think at times steps are skipped. I I see this with physicians who say, you know, I really should have been at an academic center.
Jessica Minesinger:I just I got this offer, and I needed the money. And, you know, there was a big signing bonus, and I just it was a burden hand. But it but and then looking back and talking with the physician three years in, five years in, it wasn't the right fit. It wasn't the right fit for that organization or for the physician. So those are parts of the recruiting piece that I think you can set yourself apart.
Jessica Minesinger:I talk about this a lot when I'm talking to health care leaders To engage potential physicians in these conversations, so powerful. And you might as well know upfront. You know? Knowledge is power. You should know these things upfront.
Jessica Minesinger:And if that's not the right fit for you, then, you know, you wanna keep looking.
Daniel Williams:Right. You you made so many great points. I I I wanna just sit down and block more time and talk to you all day about this. But, you know, some something that went through my mind is, so you don't sit across from the person and go, so or are we a good fit here? You know?
Daniel Williams:It's like, what are the nuanced ways? I mean, we don't have all the time to cover all of them, but what are a couple of key questions or things at least that practice administrator or that hiring person should be thinking about in in ways to relate and connect with that, person interviewing for the job so you really begin to understand, hey. We're really coming at this from the same place. This is gonna this is potentially a really good fit here or maybe not a good fit.
Jessica Minesinger:Off the top of my head, things that I see when I'm working with physicians, work life balance is a big priority, especially for the younger generation of physicians coming in. So that isn't, that isn't right or wrong. That just is. So those are the kind of questions you wanna ask. What what are, you know, what are your priorities around work life balance?
Jessica Minesinger:These are our on call expectations. This is how we handle call. You know, everyone takes a, you know, their pro rata share, or, we expect the new person to take this amount of call. Or, have those discussions about time, what's gonna be expected of this physician, have the discussions around the work life balance priorities, discussions around location. So oftentimes, I'll see a physician recruited in.
Jessica Minesinger:They think they're gonna be at a certain site or location. It turns out they may be, doing two or three days at a different site. That requires more drive time. That requires perhaps less productivity than had been expected. Have those conversations upfront.
Jessica Minesinger:You know, other discussions, around leadership. We're seeing this especially this newer generation of physicians, very interested in leadership training, coaching, being involved in leadership in the hospital. I'm seeing a lot of physicians prioritizing volunteer time, for volunteer opportunities. I mean, I had a physician recently who that that was the only line in in her contract negotiation. Her red line was that she needed two consecutive weeks for a volunteer opportunity that she was really passionate about, in Africa.
Jessica Minesinger:And because of the distance for travel, she needed the two consecutive weeks. That was literally the only thing in her contract that ended up being, you know, a deal breaker. So, you know, those are really important discussions to have. Research. Some physicians completely passionate about research grant opportunities, you know, development of of new treatments.
Jessica Minesinger:Other physicians not interested in in research. And so let's have those conversations up front to make sure that, you know, it's the right fit for everybody. And And the the the goal is that that physician is engaged, in your organization and just becomes increasingly more engaged as part of the team.
Daniel Williams:Okay. So let's assume we've done an amazing job really having a great dialogue with that physician. We brought them on board. But once they're there, what are some of the most common reasons then that they will leave a practice? Because you've done all the due diligence.
Daniel Williams:You get to go to Africa for two two weeks every year. You get to do all the things that we agreed upon, and then, uh-oh, this isn't working. What's going on there?
Jessica Minesinger:You know, there was a really fascinating it's on the MGMA website. It's a co- project, research project between MGMA and Jackson Physician Search, and I believe
Jessica Minesinger:it's from 2025. What they found in the survey data is that, the reason that these first time physicians took these positions was compensation, location, work life balance. The reason they stayed in those positions was compensation culture and work life balance. So location became less of a priority.
Jessica Minesinger:Culture became more of a priority. And the compensation piece, I really believe, is where this guarantee period is transitioning into a hybrid or totally productivity model or whatever the case may be. It's that's a really dangerous time, when somebody feels that they're taking a pay cut and they don't under either they don't understand why, they don't agree with the fact that they're taking the pay cut, the formulas are complicated, you know, they don't understand why they're not generating more RVUs. That is is a really vulnerable time for physicians. And and I think what's fascinating about the culture piece is transparent about it, the way you communicate it, how often you discuss it with your physicians and your providers in general, that goes to the culture of the organization.
Jessica Minesinger:So compensation and culture, they're just intertwined. And when I say that, it's not it's not specifically about the money. It's about, fairness. Right? So it's incumbent upon, you know, leaders in physician compensation, recruiters, the whole team to really be having, open dialogue about this.
Jessica Minesinger:And I tell, you know, health care leaders, you know, in real estate, there's the saying, location, location, location. And in in, you know, provider compensation, it it's so important to have, you know, to have conversation, conversation, conversation. You know, you can't, talk with your physicians too much about this. If you have quarterly meetings with them about their compensation, about, what their next step is in the organization, would they like to become more involved? Would they like to sit on the provider compensation committee?
Jessica Minesinger:Would, they like to take a leadership role on med staff? You know, those are the sorts of things, at that crucial point that are gonna really keep physicians, engaged and in your practice. And I would tell you know, and I do tell administrators and and executives, you know, be proactive. Be looking. What's gonna happen with this physician's compensation when the switch happens?
Jessica Minesinger:And how can you ensure that, you know, the incentives are working the way they should? If an incentive for productivity is sitting out there and you can't reach it, it's not an incentive at all. It's actually it discourages the physician. So, you know, it's really, it's those types of things, and that communication and transparency really bolsters the culture. And it makes the physician feel comfortable coming to an administrator and saying, I, you know, I I'm just not as productive in this location as I wanna be.
Jessica Minesinger:What can we do to remove these obstacles? So want that door open for sure.
Daniel Williams:In the remaining time, I just I wanna add to exactly what you were saying. I love that you brought up the communication, communication, communication. We talk about building a culture and hiring, retaining, all these, for lack of a better word, buzzwords. But at the end of the day, we're human beings. Physicians are human beings.
Daniel Williams:They are in such Okay. A How do we get those work RVUs? There's so many demands placed upon people in the healthcare profession, particularly those clinicians. We hear about pajama time. We hear about all these things.
Daniel Williams:You brought up a study that MGMA and Jackson Physician Search did. There was another one that JPS did years ago that I've talked to them frequently about, where there is a disconnect, where things will be put in place and independently the administrators were surveyed and the physicians were surveyed. Hey, is there a good communication channel? Are we supporting you in the way they did? The administrators, like 80% said yes.
Daniel Williams:Like, 30% of the physicians said yes. So, yeah, they were completely disconnected there. And it comes back to what I was initially saying about communication. How do the administrators then communicate? How do they see things from the point of view of those physicians?
Daniel Williams:Not just looking at it through their lens, but looking at it through the physician's lens so they can get a better understanding of what that physician is going through.
Jessica Minesinger:Right. I was thinking about this the other day. I'm preparing for I'll be presenting at the MGMA, operations conference and the financial conference, this spring. And, you know, it really comes down to this. Physician compensation from a recruitment and retention standpoint, from a long term, retention standpoint has become so complicated.
Jessica Minesinger:What we really need is more common sense. You know? And when I talk to administrators, I I think we just get back to basics, which is the golden rule. Right? So do on to others as you would have done to you.
Jessica Minesinger:So when you're designing, when you're reviewing your current compensation plan or your recruitment offer, or, if you're reviewing it, if you're designing it, keep that in mind. Is this how would would I be comfortable if this was how my compensation were structured? Would I understand this formula? Would I be able to meet this target? Explain this verbally to physicians in a way that they're going to to understand?
Jessica Minesinger:Are the expectations realistic? You know, it just really comes down to that. I mean, for most of us, our compensation is not as complicated as it is for physicians. So what we don't want them to do is having to spend time tracking down RVUs, which are changing so, drastically, right now. What what we want them focused on is patient care and, the very best outcomes possible and getting patients in.
Jessica Minesinger:So, you know, for administrators right now, the key really is how can you keep this as as, simple as possible, as fair as possible, and incentives that are incorporated, that are just that. They're incentivizing physicians with with the understanding that physicians are doing everything they can. You know, our our latest data from MGMA from 2025, Chris Harrop and I reviewed this. It was really fascinating. What we found was a trend where, patient encounters are up.
Jessica Minesinger:In many specialties, RVUs are stagnant or decreasing. So we know physicians are working harder seeing more patients. That's not necessarily translating into productivity. So, you know, for my biggest advice for administrators going into 2026, for those that that have influence over physician compensation is to really look at hybrid models that can be very clearly communicated to your your providers. You know?
Jessica Minesinger:And and I'd really focus on base salary. We have great data at MGMA for base salary. I'm focusing on guaranteed base salary and then productivity, admin time, quality incentives that are really meaningful, attainable, and driving the mission of your organization. And at the core of that is, you know, do onto others. Right?
Jessica Minesinger:I mean, if it yeah. I I just I think it comes down to basics at this point. We're and just, just there's no room for an us versus them, mentality. We're all in this together, to lift our patients up, to to provide the best care. So that that's it takes a team mentality and a growth mindset.
Daniel Williams:Yeah. I love that. And, Jessica Meinsinger, I wanna thank you for joining us on the podcast, and let's not wait, four years before we have you on again.
Jessica Minesinger:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Daniel Williams:Alright. Well, everyone, thank you so much for listening. We're really excited about the podcast in 2026, all the things that are gonna be going on, and be looking for the rest of this month for more information on recruiting, retention, onboarding, all the other aspects, you know, to really get that year started in the right way. So until then, thank you all so much for being MGMA podcast listeners.
