MGMA Podcasts

Roben Farzad - Transcript
Daniel Williams: [00:00:00] Well, hi, everyone. I'm Daniel Williams, senior editor at MGMA and host of the MGMA Podcast Network. We are back with a special guest today, um, who brings a deep understanding of the trends shaping the business and the technology landscape. Robin Farzad is a journalist, broadcaster, and host of Public Radio's Full Disclosure, and he's going to be speaking at MGMA's finance conference coming up in April.
That is going to be a treat there for everybody. In fact, his keynote session disrupt or be disrupted the tech and business trends you need to know. Robin's going to be in front of that MGMA audience on Tuesday, April 15th, and uh, I just can't wait to, uh, get to share him with the MGMA audience here. So Robin, without further ado, welcome to the show.
Roben Farzad: Thank you for having me. [00:01:00]
Daniel Williams: Yeah. So let me just ask you a quick question. You have your own podcast. Talk about that. How'd you get into podcasting? How did you, where did that, uh, evolution come from as well?
Roben Farzad: Well, if you take it back all the way, uh, out of college, I went into wealth management during the bull market, the.
com boom of 98 to 2000. And I learned a lot doing that. It was at Goldman Sachs, but I missed what I most enjoyed doing in college was writing for the school newspaper. So I parlayed that experience into writing for business publications. It was on the wall street journal, smart money, which was the magazine of the wall street journal.
I worked with New York times. I spent a long time at business week as, um, markets editor. And uh, international finance editor and Bloomberg purchased us. I mean, we talk about disruption was 2008 and 2009 really cratered the business really accelerated the demise of print publications. And what I most enjoyed doing was the calls from NPR to [00:02:00] explain subprime to a mom and pop audience.
Uh, it's really motivated me. You can, uh, I don't want to say add value, but really bridge the world's de exoticize the jargon. I love doing that. And, uh, I wanted to go off and create my own public radio show, which I did in 2014. And here we are 11 years later.
Daniel Williams: That is really cool. You, you stirred some memories for me for about a decade.
I Uh, worked with some different retirement planning magazines, some investment advisor magazines, and one of the main issues there, one of them, was that financial literacy. It sounded like that's a gap that you tried to close as well. Talk about that. How do we put that in terms where somebody who hadn't steeped in it like you are, who in living in finance and financial jargon day to day, how do you, uh, sort of bridge that gap and Make it understandable to just people who want to have a nest egg to [00:03:00] rely on in retirement.
Roben Farzad: Yeah, I personalized it in my presentations. I was born in Iran. And one of my formative memories, um, coming here to the United States is when I was in kindergarten, dad took me to American savings bank of North Miami beach. It was this old SNL that I don't think made it, but he was so proud. To take a knee and present me with a passbook savings account and look, son, you know, you get 16 percent on this savings account and they'll give you a blender and a toaster, whereas that would have been the perfect time if he had any idea to buy an S and P 500 index fund.
I mean, even at those yields, you didn't want to buy. a savings account for a kindergartner, but Let's be honest back then brokerage firms were kind of of the elite um, you did not have ubiquitous index funds and etfs and truly today it is absolutely democratized I How many people know that the brokerage commission has been killed that anybody with a hundred dollars with ten dollars can invest in fractional shares [00:04:00] and?
the power of compounding and being the market, not beating the market or getting a Gordon Gekko edge or calling your broker. That's something that that's available to everyone that is available to everyone. It's like, you know, it should be a right, like, uh, you know, clean, potable water. Yeah. And, um, so that's become a cause for me, Jack Bogle, the late founder of Vanguard became a mentor to me.
I met him in college and he was a great source while I was. Covering markets. And if you read that it's about simplicity, it's about patience. It's about, don't just do something, sit there. And, um, I've become an evangelist for that. Having been on the marketing and sales side inside wall street and seeing when somebody has something to sell you, I am, I am for mom and pop and John Q investor, however, elusive that is.
Daniel Williams: Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing that insight. So let's get to your keynote. It's titled Disrupt or Be Disrupted. Just give us a high level view. What are you getting [00:05:00] at there when you're talking about that?
Roben Farzad: I think about, you know, in business school, I think about companies and everything. Ones that really ruled the world in the past.
If you think about General Electric or Westinghouse, if you think about brands such as RCA, things that were around as kids, I once interviewed Charles Schwab and a class at the Stanford Graduate School of Business gave him these bowling pins to commemorate the great bowling. Lane Alley bubble of 1968.
Does anybody remember that? Does anybody remember that Boston chicken was the hottest IPO of 1993? But the landscape is littered with all of these examples. I mean, most recently Intel. This is a national champion semiconductor Colossus. It's like synonymous with semiconductor, the way Kleenex is with tissues, right?
Intel has been disrupted. That is shocking. That is stunning. The fact that this company is reeling has had to cut its dividends. It's been caught on the back foot. It shows you how you can really, especially when you're huge, you can rest on [00:06:00] your laurels. I mean, Microsoft, which is thriving in other respects.
Look, they completely missed the smartphone. They were wedded to desktop. They're wedded to, and it's brutally hard when you have money coming in and you recognize something to go in and disrupt it. I would say the counterfactual is Apple, I remember, was 90 days from bankruptcy in 1997. And took a lifeline from Microsoft.
I argue that that's probably the worst investment in history, even though it netted Microsoft, you know, for 200 million, made them 2 billion, it then gave a last chance to this company to become the largest company on the planet. And, and, and, and while he was cornered, Steve jobs, he came out with something as audacious as the iPod as, um, Apple iTunes.
I mean, there's some people out there who they say, ask for forgiveness, not for permission, and he did it. And I'm also reminded of the anecdote. There was someone who wrote the story of, uh, BlackBerry Research in Motion, which was a gigantic, the largest company, I believe [00:07:00] in Canada as recently as 15, 20 years ago, and the terror of management when they were handed the first iPhone.
And they saw, you know, they were ashen. Oh my gosh, there's a full browser on this. How are they going to do this? What are we going to do? And at that point, it's too late, right? Right. So I'm, I'm fascinated by that in and out of biographically my own industry, as I said, Has been vastly disrupted. Uh, cable TV was a license to print money and that's being smashed into pits with cord cutting right now.
And you're seeing layoffs left and right and zombie networks. And so we pay lip service to innovation and it's existential, but in reality, in terms of organizational dynamics and corporate behavior, it's brutally difficult to pull off.
Daniel Williams: You have opened so many doors here for me to jump through and I have to ask you this.
An the other day you were talking about Apple and the iPhone. [00:08:00] Um, I've only had an iPhone for I think 11 years. No, no, 14 years now. 14 years. I don't remember life before. I don't, what did I do? What did you do before you had an A smartphone? Whether it's an iPhone or another phone. We are wedded to these things now and we, our behavior, uh, you know, how did we spend our time when we were standing in a line or in traffic or whatever it might be, uh, where we don't have this lifeline called the smart device.
Roben Farzad: And I distinctly recall it was this time, around this time, spring of 2007, that Steve Jobs, he was sick. He had some version of pancreatic cancer that he kept on the down low. He visited Business Week's offices. He did a tour in New York of Fortune, New York Times, Wall Street Journal with this curious thing that he handed around.
And, you know, we all signed a statement that we wouldn't say anything. And the editors were just saying to themselves, Oh, it's curious, but [00:09:00] my phone is fine. Why do I need a phone? Right. And in fact, it was crashing AT& T's network initially, and he wasn't blamed for that. It was, Oh, we, we take for granted the fact that the network is mediocre, but there was a willingness to forgive and forget because there was product lust.
And yeah, you have, you have visionaries out in history that do things like this. They're very flawed. People like Henry Ford or some great marketers out there, some people who turned around consumer packaged goods companies, but this is something that has really changed the world. It would probably be a fortune 50 company unto itself right now.
iPhone corp, right? Right.
Daniel Williams: Right. Yeah, it's remarkable. Um, okay. So that was, as you said, 2007 quickly adopted quickly took it, took Apple to the largest, uh, you know, market value company in the world, the latest disruptor. I believe I could be, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the latest disruptors is AI and [00:10:00] machine learning.
It is ubiquitous. Now, you can't go a day or sometimes even an hour without having a conversation with somebody about one of the AI Uh, platforms or apps that we use daily and by the minute, sometimes talk about that. What is going on in that disruption and how are we adapting to it?
Roben Farzad: Do you remember it was the Guns and Roses album?
Use your illusion. That's what you kind of have to do. You have to metaphorically hit, hit the opium pipe in the den and imagine how things will be because the torchbearer for AI is NVIDIA, which I had mentioned Intel, who the one that has vanquished Intel is NVIDIA. Used to be a niche gaming chip company, but it correctly said that these very powerful power hungry graphic and general processing units would eclipse and vanquish the central processing unit of which Intel was wedded to.
It kind of bet the ranch on that. You and I, if we were sitting back, uh, five, six, seven years ago, we'd say Google works fine for me, you know, [00:11:00] but imagine if you're a real estate agent or somebody, you look into a crystal ball, this, you throw in a couple of inputs and chat GPT, or one of these co pilots will help you draft a listing, or you tell it to do it again or do it again, or you put in some of my, uh, biographical stuff into this and what you want to do.
And it will do a draft script for this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. That is very power hungry. It's very whimsical. It's very Jetsons. But look, depositing a check on my phone is still Jetsons for me. That's my kids are like, why do you even go to the bank or what's MTV? So this is fascinating. I think about all of the different magazines, uh, art editors, and they'd have to do mock ups of graphics of things.
And you go into something like a mid journey or something right now. And after a couple of iterations, tell it to mock up. I saw something that truly took my breath away. It was. You know, you're, it's 1968, you're in Soho, a young Italian model dressed in turn of the century lace turns around past the fruit [00:12:00] carts and looks at you in a kind of a winking way.
And it's amazing. Right after iteration one or two, where she has 15 fingers, it's dead on and you're not having somebody crafted and painted and do it. And so it's an enormous help. It's an enormous unlock for the administrative things and the labor intensive things in the interest of automation, as you say, but it's also dangerous if you would.
Dependent on these things to make a living you're gonna you're gonna have to compete against the machine
Daniel Williams: One term that I came across in researching you that you're going to be talking about is fintech and its relationship to health care It may not be as familiar to our audience as say ai or an iphone is but talk about fintech and what it's Impact is or will be or could be on the health care world.
Roben Farzad: You know, I think about fintech and, and, and the banks, especially after the financial crisis, too big to fail [00:13:00] became even too bigger to fail a JP Morgan annex to Washington mutual, a Bear Stearns. Providian and they have so much clout right now. And if you look at all of the different companies that Chase has acquired over the years, and I think in large part, parallel to that, if you look at, uh, I think about my experience, candidly, I'm a cancer survivor.
Um, and every time I have to go in, I'm given the same iPad, the same fill out form. I've been to several different offices. There's so much bloatware and middleware to fill out my information and medical history. And I understand. There are critical privacy and HIPAA considerations there, but this is something that has been so ripe for rationalization, for modernization, for, you know, AI should be able to take a stab at these things, with me kind of at the helm of doing it, right?
Um, And I think that, um, you know, the deeper we go into these, the more like, if your [00:14:00] iPhone is your center of gravity, and you're increasingly using Apple Pay, and you're not walking around with a credit card and things like that, and there are biometric aspects to it, there's going to be a convergence, I believe, of the fintech and the healthcare technology.
Already, people who wear Apple Watches or various other smart bands are able to You know, monitor blood, blood oxygen, uh, sleep patterns and everything. There are things that are going to happen and I don't mean to sound like an Epcot ride, but there are things that are going to happen. They're kind of inconceivable to us that right now are kind of clunky and janky.
You know, if I go in for an MRI, I have to fill the format all over again, the same bracelet thing, the same verification thing. Um, so much can be done, but it's tricky with healthcare because of privacy, but parallel to finance and privacy. You have to have respect for the doctor patient privilege. Um, but you know, there, there are ways of making things better, faster and cheaper.
And I think honestly, Daniel, about you think about the backlash recently to health insurance [00:15:00] companies, you look at all of the money spent on administrative and marketing and, and whacking the kudzu with the entire healthcare industry. And that's not even, you know, that's not even passing down to net profit.
There's an enormous opportunity, both for the provider, you know, the company. And the patient, the consumer
Daniel Williams: staying in that vein of disruptions. We had that thing called the Corona virus in 2020, a major disrupter to our lives. And what we found from the healthcare side was. We needed to adapt quickly, rapidly, immediately, overnight, uh, transformed to telehealth, uh, because people were locked down at a certain point.
Obviously, if it was a hospitalization situation, you went in the hospital, but a lot of that stuff was being done, uh, through a telehealth, uh, portal and through that connection. Um, when we [00:16:00] think about e commerce, consumer behavior, and we think about, The giants right now, whether it's Apple, whether it's Google, whether it's, uh, Meta or Amazon, there is a certain expectation that has been created for consumers, and I'm calling patients a consumer in this regard.
What does, uh, what's the opportunity for medical practices? What can they do to adapt? So quite frankly, they just aren't left behind technologically in that way.
Roben Farzad: It's hard. And I've thought about it a lot because like it or not, you know, we talk about too big to fail in banks and there are three or four or five privileged banks that are massive and the fed.
And the SEC and NASD will not let them fail. The government will not let them fail. Whatever risk taking they do, it's nothing like the SNL crisis. But they're also too big to fail platforms right now. If I think about Apple, Amazon, Google, Meta. And they have the preponderance of, uh, kind of [00:17:00] information on us.
Look at Amazon alone, right? And look at its forays into the pharmacy business and the healthcare business. And it has tried, it has tried to take a crack at this. There was during the pandemic, a consortium of JP Morgan and other fortune 20 players that were going to come in and take a crack at it. There are barriers to entry.
It's hard to do. Uh, Look at potentially who's going private today. Walgreens. Walgreens has been a distressed company, right? This has been a dividend star for 50 years. It's been a peerless, but it has struggled both like right in the crosshairs of an Amazon, because it's going after impulse retail. And you've taken shipping out of the equation and the burnout of a pharmacist and the like, and the headache of benefit managers and getting the prescription delivered, it becomes the Holy grail if you could.
Take care of that relationship. If you could get these goods delivered, if it can be smarter than it is right now, that you don't have to get in a line. And, and I, I feel for [00:18:00] pharmacists whenever I see them, I feel for doctors staffs, look, there's a ver be honest. There's a version of Amazon prime that. Dr.
Practices are experiencing right now. If you want to get a call back increasingly, or you go to these concierge services, I think there is an enormous opportunity for a player and it's got to be a trusted player. I think an Apple is a trusted player. If you look at how initially we go back to the iPhone that was espoused.
And then something like Apple pay was espoused or biometric information is espoused or that you have all this information on iCloud. As long as they do no evil. There's opportunity for them to bring it along, you know, from a mundane perspective, how do you move the needle on a 3 trillion market cap, you go into the next unlock, you talk about telehealth, telehealth was a great unlock for medicine.
And there's a way to bring costs down and increase, you know, people who are not people do who do not have access to medicine people who do not have access to psychiatric care where there's a shortage. This is [00:19:00] suddenly an unlock things that we're taking for granted. We're doing this on zoom. I didn't know what zoom was on March 10.
I didn't need 2020, right? And here we are at Microsoft is shutting down Skype because it allowed again, innovator die. It didn't see that immediately the world is going to be on zoom school. Everything's going to happen over zoom, but this has helped things. This has helped me interview people. This has helped me have meetings with prospective hires or students who I'm mentoring who are in different parts of the world.
And my March 1st, 2020 mind never saw this.
Daniel Williams: Right, right. We talked earlier about simplifying. We talked about financial literacy. We talked about making things easier for people. But going back to your situation as a cancer survivor, as a patient who goes through the myriad, labyrinthine, uh, existence of healthcare at times, how do we simplify that?
You made great points there that some of the [00:20:00] biggest companies in the world, some of the smartest people out there, Said, hey, we'll fix, we'll crack the code of health care and we'll fix it. And they saw it was a heck of a lot harder than they thought it was going to be. So how do we get that trust and how do we get that where we can make it easier for access for people so they can get the health care that they need?
Roben Farzad: I will say that it's brutally difficult as a cancer patient, because, as you know, when you're diagnosed and you go into treatment, you have a cancer board, and there's oncology, there's radiation, there's the specialist, there's the hematology, there's all of these different things, and the software is not built to accommodate all of them, like you might be logging on to The oncologist site, and it'll take her a while to upload the CT and various other things.
There is someone like a concierge out there. I love that human touch that there was someone willing to call and coordinate and traffic cop, especially when there's a shortage of scanners and you have to, you know, you need an advocate. I had wished for it to all be on [00:21:00] one app in one place at one time.
And with. Biometric ability for me to upload this information for it to go over NFT community. Do you know what I'm saying? As the things that you're able to take for granted, um, with more than a modicum of security and anonymity, because as is right now, it's just so much paperwork and it's the same bracelet and it's the same verification.
And we go through the motions of doing it. And I'm immensely grateful for these people. They're angels to me, but it would make their lives in my life so much easier. If we could break through who's going to, you know, The interesting thing about Steve Jobs was, um, iTunes was kind of forced on the record industry.
Do you remember? I mean, I sure do. You have to disrupt the 17 CD, which was a cash cow or the DVD or various other things. And that just took an audacity. They said Steve Jobs had a reality distortion force field.
It was like a
Roben Farzad: Jedi mind trick. You're going to do this. I don't know if anybody can do that with the very, you know, pharmacy benefit [00:22:00] managers, uh, the, the chains that own the hospitals, um, the, the.
You know, the cancer treatment centers that I work with and others, but gosh, it would be so great. And I, you know, when I worked on wall street, I was pitched by so many medical software, middleware companies, and they would get rolled into IBM or rational software, various other things, but they never achieved, by the way, banks will complain about the same thing and bank mergers.
There are still 15 years ago and their full software systems are not integrated airlines. You know, they're, they're, uh, I believe that, uh, American is still using America West. Software for certain routes. It's, uh, it's difficult and as we get bigger and more interconnected, it's only more difficult to, you know, impose that people you saw the difficulty of launching healthcare.
gov, right? Oh, yeah. I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense. I think about these things is my mind, you know, three in the morning goes to oncology and I think about it, smarter, better, faster. Um, I think about [00:23:00] hitting refresh for the CT results and the MRI results. There's a better, there's a better way.
Daniel Williams: Yeah. Um, we have talked about some of the mega companies. I'll call them. The ones are in that trillion dollar market value range there. I used to work at my first job out of college was with one of the baby bell companies. They had been do. Deregulated. Regulated. Yeah. Regulated and, and split up. I was in the Southeastern region with Bell South.
Southern Bell? Yeah. I grew up in Miami
Roben Farzad: with Southern Bell. Yeah. We were leasing, we were leasing our phone from them like well into 1991. There you go. It was on our phone bill every month, like a 9 charge to lease. Oh no, I know. A rotary phone, a copper wire phone.
Daniel Williams: Because it had been a monopoly. You're studying these companies, the mega companies, they are acquiring.
Uh, Meta is an example, Facebook acquiring, you know, Instagram and then [00:24:00] continuing to build its, its, uh, inventory and other companies are doing the same thing. Do you have any fear if we get too many, too much power in too few hands there? What, what is your talk as far as that's concerned about monopolization of industries or the power, uh, structure?
Roben Farzad: The platforms are preeminent right now, parallel to, you know, used to be a, uh, Microsoft. Uh, you know, Microsoft Windows and Apple duopoly, maybe there was IBM OS. You know, back when it mattered, like breaking up my bell into baby bells, it's not as relevant as, you know, anymore because of voiceover IP, like we're not, we're not getting up at four in the morning to make a call to Canada, you know, to save the toll.
Um, so disruption changes this and yet, um, And yet, despite it all, we have three or four or five big platform tech players that are impossible to break up. Nobody thwarted Facebook meta when it wanted to buy WhatsApp. [00:25:00] What's
app
Roben Farzad: was an interesting bubble. It took it. Nobody stopped Microsoft when it wanted to buy Skype.
Uh, nobody is going to stop any of these players. Google is a behemoth, you know, Google paid two and 2. 6 billion. I think in 2006 for YouTube, YouTube is now by far the largest. Channel in history and you could sense that it's sucking in Everything from linear cable tv individual artists and the pandemic also created that there were all a lot of artists going straight to it And was I mean if you think about all the other assets it has it and facebook Metaconjoy, you know, a duopoly on advertising.
Is that fair? Like, would you let one company control one channel? And I worry that the median lawmaker's mind kind of doesn't get it. They almost might say good analysis, put it on CD for me. You know, this, this does keep me up at night. And I've, I think it's really important to talk about too big to fail.
From a tech platform perspective, because [00:26:00] one of these things we've also, we've, we've tasted it every now and then when one of these services goes out where there's a hack, like there was the iCloud hack several years ago, we realized really how vulnerable we are.
Daniel Williams: Um, final thing then, uh, let's put ourselves in the shoes of our, our listeners, their medical practice administrators.
They are leaders in healthcare organizations. What are a couple of steps they need to be taking now? So they just don't get. Left behind in this, this technological seismic shift that's taking place right now.
Roben Farzad: Yeah, I, in South Florida, I've met many physicians who become experts on, uh, real estate. Out of necessity, out of personal financial necessity.
They know that it makes sense to have a parallel passive income and loss carryovers and the like, and they, they made it a point to focus on that. And I would say, invest in reading up on technology, invest in [00:27:00] people like, you know, Marques Brownlee is now the Walt Mossberg of the YouTube generation is this young guy in New Jersey who reviews products, who, who.
It's showing you the way forward. There's a colleague of mine, um, at Bloomberg, Ashley Vance, who's very much a futurist who does this more than dabble into it. See what your iPhone and iPad can do. Um, and ask yourself. Admittedly within the confines of HIPAA and privacy, how difficult it is, but how you can lean into this, how you can lean into it to make life a little bit easier for your staff.
We hear, I talk to physicians right now, there's record burnout. There's record difficulty getting and keeping staff. Um, people are just in a foul mood. Think about it. If you have to be at the frontline and you didn't get to work from home and you have to mask up and personal protective equipment and all these other things, and now on the other end of it, use this not to lard up.
People's responsibilities, but to free them up. And I, I wish that there was [00:28:00] autonomy in doing that. It's it's just, it's just really hard, but look, I went and saw the dentist afterwards and I was expecting that they were going to put me in a room and, you know, cradle my head and put the thing in it. No, it's just this gun, right?
Nina, the technology changed during the pandemic, right? The technology of podcasting changed during the pandemic. I was posting people at the NPR bureau in Bryant park in New York city. If you and I. Really wanted to crack the code on productivity and this and not to put James out of work, but apparently AI can now let you make a titty phone conversation going back to your bell days and it can upscale it to samples of our voice.
Wow. And so that's a huge productivity gain. If I can just get on the phone and talk with you and I didn't have to worry about simultaneous recording or I don't want it to put a person out of work, but in my line of work, it certainly makes it very possible to have any guests around the planet on. Do you see what I'm saying?
Daniel Williams: I sure do. So
Roben Farzad: I struggle, I don't know, talking and I love, believe me, if I'm sitting at a wedding [00:29:00] next to a proctologist, dentist, dermatologist, I'm always the one with those questions. Like what is the one thing you would tell me? I find occasionally really, really smart, um, Jack of all trades physicians who study on personal finance, who study on tech, um, and I would encourage people to do that.
Just, just be omnivorous as much as you can. And understanding that you, you very rarely have the autonomy, whether you're talking about the insurance company or Medicaid benefits or Medicare benefits, but world is changing so much faster than any of us could have imagined. And we are nearing the five year anniversary of the onset of this pandemic.
And think about what your reality was before that and think about what the reality is ahead.
Daniel Williams: Mm hmm. So, as we sign off then, um, what's a source, resource, where would you point people if they want to know more about you or more about the kind of things you're talking about today? Where would you like to send them?
Roben Farzad: [00:30:00] Yeah, my, uh, my show runs on NPR. You can get it on the NPR app. You can go to, uh, fulldradio. com, which has the, uh, Spotify and Apple podcast link. We have a YouTube channel, uh, where these things are going up and look, I'm in the process of disrupting myself. It used to be just an audio only is table stakes.
Now you have to do live shows. You have to do public speaking. You have to go on the road and turn it around. Like how is something like this useful to a group of. specialized, uh, listeners, uh, and what will I learn from it? And then what can I then take on? One of my favorite questions is who should I talk to next and always ask that.
Yeah. And, um, be omnivorous. I don't want it to sound hollow. So it's a great time. If you have the eyes, if you have the mind, even if you don't have the eyes, listen to it on audio book or on pod.
Daniel Williams: Yeah, I love it. Well, Robin Frazad, it has been such a pleasure to get to talk to you and hear your insights about Disrupt or be disrupted.
So thank you for joining us. Thank [00:31:00] you. All right, and you can catch Robin live April 15th at MGMA's financial conference. So please sign up. I will provide a direct link in the episode show notes Until then. Thank you all for being MGMA podcast listeners